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DEF030 - dominic Interview

the depths of addiction

Interview date: Wednesday, 12th February 2020
Interview location: Bogota, Colombia

Note: the following is a transcription of my interview with Dominic. I have reviewed the transcription but if you find any mistakes, please feel free to email us. You can listen to the original recording here.

In this interview, Dominic explains how he survived a coma and is now in recovery for both drug and alcohol addiction.


INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPTION

Peter McCormack: 00:02:57:
All right Dom, hello. How are you?

Dominic: 00:03:01:
Good.

Peter McCormack: 00:03:01:
How you feeling?

Dominic: 00:03:02:
Yeah, interested in what's going to happen.

Peter McCormack: 00:03:07:
So, a bit of context for anyone who's listening. I've known you for 27 years?

Dominic: 00:03:13:
Yeah, disclosure.

Peter McCormack: 00:03:14:
Disclosure. But there's probably a period in that of about 15 years where we lost contact.

Dominic: 00:03:20:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:03:21:
So we knew each other from 14 to 18, 19.

Dominic: 00:03:24:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:03:25:
Went our separate ways, and then, we'll talk about when we bumped into each other again. But we've both been through a different experience with drug and alcohol abuse. You definitely worse than me, but I wanted to talk to you about it.

Dominic: 00:03:41:
Sure.

Peter McCormack: 00:03:41:
I think you've got a fascinating story, you're a friend of mine. Even with 15 years not seeing you in the middle, love you dearly, want the best for you, but I want to talk about it because I think addiction is a very interesting subject that sometimes people veer away from talking about it.

Dominic: 00:03:58:
Oh yeah, for sure.

Peter McCormack: 00:04:01:
So, I think it was about three years ago ... Well actually, so it was about five years ago I knew you were back in Bedford. We were hanging out, me and my kids, and you and your daughter, and then didn't see you for about a year, I think it was about a year. I went to work one morning in the Embankment pub, in Bedford. Do you want to say what happened?

Dominic: 00:04:26:
You bumped into a crack addict, yeah. I don't really remember very much of that time, but I do remember I was sitting there, I had some dodgy people with me, who were kind of manipulating me at the time. And I remember I was waiting for my dealer to arrive and you cornered me, and we sat down and you tried to persuade me to come with you.

Peter McCormack: 00:04:52:
Yeah. So what I remember is, I've got a coffee and I see you come ... You came down the stairs, I think you were staying there the night. And I was like, "Hi, how are you doing? You all right?" And you were, "Yeah, I'm fine." I didn't realise anything was going on, you just said you stayed the night there. But I don't know if you remember, you wanted to borrow my phone?

Dominic: 00:05:16:
Yeah, no, I don't remember that.

Peter McCormack: 00:05:18:
Yeah, so you wanted to borrow my phone and I said to you, "Why?" And then you explained you've been on it and you wanted to score. I've done plenty of drugs myself, but you explained to me that you were doing crack. I've always found that, as a drug, a scary one. Like I'd always set my limits as, yeah I can smoke some pot, maybe do some MDMA, and cocaine was my drug of choice. I think I was a good couple of years clean, so I did see a pattern. You wanted to borrow my phone and yeah, I tried to persuade you not to do it, to come with me.

Dominic: 00:05:56:
Right. I remember you being really annoying because in that state, I was focused on just getting the next hit, and so I was like, "Yo, this guy's going to get in the way."

Peter McCormack: 00:06:07:
So, I wouldn't let you use my phone, I remember I didn't let you use my phone. I think you got access anyway. What you don't know, I don't think you know, is after that, I called your brother and I said, "I've just seen Dom. Hadn't seen him for about a year. This is what's going on." And I also spoke to our mutual friend, Tim, and they filled me in on the gap, all the stuff I didn't know for the previous 15 years.

Peter McCormack: 00:06:33:
We're going to jump forwards and then backwards, but jump forward maybe a year, six months, I can't really remember and I'm told you've moved to Colombia, which I was surprised and shocked by. And then, jump forward another period of time and I hear you're in a very bad situation in hospital. And now we're here in Bogota. So we're going to work through it all, but where I want to start is, I think I smoked pot with you at school.

Dominic: 00:07:02:
Oh yeah. God yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:07:03:
I think the first time I smoked pot was with you. I think it was you, me, and Tim, down by ... Yeah, I know it's mad. I think it was down by the river. How much do you remember Bedford? Do you remember the suspension bridge?

Dominic: 00:07:17:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:07:17:
If you go off across there, take a left and there's the rowing place there.

Dominic: 00:07:22:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:07:22:
Yeah, behind there.

Dominic: 00:07:23:
Okay, yeah. It's a good spot.

Peter McCormack: 00:07:25:
Good spot. I didn't do any other drugs, apart from smoke pot, in school years, my first experience outside of that was at uni. When did you first go beyond smoking pot? I don't even consider smoking pot really a drug anyway.

Dominic: 00:07:38:
No, neither do I that much, but I do find it an obstacle to the solution of all the drug addiction, but anyway. My proper, heavy drug use is cocaine. I drank quite a bit when I was a teenager. It was more than everybody else. That became my handle was that I could drink and do more than everybody else.

Peter McCormack: 00:08:06:
When we were teenagers?

Dominic: 00:08:07:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:08:07:
I didn't notice that, because we used to go Russell Park, right?

Dominic: 00:08:11:
Yeah, Thunderbird's.

Peter McCormack: 00:08:11:
Thunderbird's, K Cider.

Dominic: 00:08:15:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:08:15:
There was a big group of us, boys and girls, used to hang out. I didn't notice a pattern of you drinking more than anyone else.

Dominic: 00:08:21:
No?

Peter McCormack: 00:08:21:
No, you tell me that. But it's a long time ago, we're talking 25 years.

Dominic: 00:08:26:
I think that became, especially as I turned 18, it became my slight identity, that I could out drink, out drug anybody. I had to leave home because my drinking was starting to get out of control, and so, quite sensibly, my parents, with tough love, said ... Yeah. Then I went to live with Tom.

Peter McCormack: 00:08:54:
In London?

Dominic: 00:08:54:
No, it was in Bedford first of all and I was working in pubs, and so I was drinking a lot more. I had a problem with gambling as well, in the pubs.

Peter McCormack: 00:09:03:
On the machines?

Dominic: 00:09:04:
On the machines. I mean, addiction, that's the thing, it will find its way to come out of you. But yeah, I went to London at about 19, and I was all by myself, but I felt like a big boy.

Peter McCormack: 00:09:21:
You didn't want to bother with the university thing?

Dominic: 00:09:24:
Well, actually, God, it's so difficult to remember all this stuff.

Peter McCormack: 00:09:26:
I know. I know.

Dominic: 00:09:27:
I went to university actually. I went to university at 18. I went to Lancaster to study art, fine art. Tim had leukemia, and so after about six months, I dropped out and went back to London to be with him, because that tore me apart. And obviously that lasted about five years, the whole ordeal. And while I was in London, I got a job in the pub across from the hospital, so I could visit him, and this went on for a couple of years.

Dominic: 00:09:58:
I managed to talk my way into a cocktail bar in Soho. They trained me up, and for me it was like, "Wow, this is adult life." There were semi-famous people, people with money, and there was cocaine. I got my first wrap free from the dealer, the bar dealer, and after that, I loved it. I loved it because it gave me all the confidence that I was lacking, basically.

Peter McCormack: 00:10:29:
It's funny you say that, lack of confidence. I was talking to, I think it was Adrian, here. I was talking to him about you and I said, "The thing about Dom ..." I was never cool at school. I did play an instrument, I just didn't have it. And I was like, "Dom, was the naturally cool one." Look at you now, even now for fuck’ sake, look at you. And I was like, "He was the cool one, he would always walk in the room ... He was just cool." All the girls fancied you. You were just cool. So to hear you say you didn't have any confidence, that's kind of interesting.

Dominic: 00:11:01:
I felt completely the opposite inside. Yeah, God yeah. I was terribly insecure growing up, alcohol and cocaine gave me the confidence to show off behind the bar, experience that lifestyle. And it just became a necessary thing, especially when you're working 17:00 till 05:00 in the morning, every day.

Peter McCormack: 00:11:24:
Daily? Was it daily?

Dominic: 00:11:26:
Daily, pretty much apart from Monday, Tuesdays.

Peter McCormack: 00:11:28:
And it very quickly became daily?

Dominic: 00:11:30:
Oh God, yeah. Working every night, I needed at least a gram, just to get me through because I was drinking as well and you don't want be drunk while you're in that situation. So yeah, that's where it all took off really. I was there for about five years, I worked through different bars, getting better. But the higher level I got in the cocktail bar industry, mixologists they call us, the more coke I needed, to where it got to be a serious problem, especially how much it costs and-

Peter McCormack: 00:11:59:
Yeah, of course.

Dominic: 00:12:01:
So yeah, and then it becomes all the other vices, I had to steal from the tills to be able to afford this. I mean, everyone's taking their cut in that industry. The bar dealer is giving a cut to the manager, so I felt it was my right to take part of the money from the tills. And that went on for about five years.

Peter McCormack: 00:12:23:
Your circle of friends were still our mutual friends, or a different circle?

Dominic: 00:12:25:
No, God no, I separated from everyone. Obviously, I still saw Tim because he was in hospital, and some friends that came to visit him sometimes. But yeah, no, my life became Soho and all that vibe.

Peter McCormack: 00:12:43:
Okay. When did the cocaine stop being just a nighttime thing? Did it ever become a Saturday morning, middle of the day?

Dominic: 00:12:54:
After a couple of years, because my day would start about three o'clock in the afternoon, with hangover, it became you needed a quick line before work, just to get you going up. And then you'd get enough money to pay for the next gram for that night, and that would be the cycle.

Peter McCormack: 00:13:13:
Did you think you had a problem, back then?

Dominic: 00:13:16:
At the end, I left it all. I had a bit of a breakdown, because yeah, I knew that I had a serious problem because my life wasn't going anywhere. I was just in this cycle of day after day, wasting more money, getting in some really dodgy situations as well, some really dangerous and really personally humiliating. So yeah, after about five years, I jacked it all in and I went back to live with my parents.

Peter McCormack: 00:13:49:
Were they aware at the time there was a problem, or did you have to confess?

Dominic: 00:13:54:
It's weird. I talked to them, long ago now, but did they realise and they didn't realise, even though I thought I'd made it clear. But I do remember coming back to Bedford after everything, giving up, and going for a curry with them, and me going for a line in the toilet, while I was talking to them about all the problems.

Peter McCormack: 00:14:15:
Yeah, I empathise with that.

Dominic: 00:14:21:
So yeah, I had a bit of a crash-down and I really wanted a total change, and so I decided to go traveling for a year.

Peter McCormack: 00:14:30:
Right, so at this point you weren't into the ... I say the hard drugs, the harder, beyond cocaine?

Dominic: 00:14:36:
No. No. I took pills as well, pills, MDMA, smoked weed, but that was it. I never thought about heroin or crack, at no point. This didn't happen till recently, really, the last five years.

Peter McCormack: 00:14:51:
Okay. So you go traveling?

Dominic: 00:14:52:
Go traveling. Went to go to Brazil to do social work. It was all filled up in Brazil, so the next option was Colombia.

Peter McCormack: 00:15:01:
It's not the greatest place for a coke-head to go to.

Dominic: 00:15:05:
I don't know what was going on in my head.

Peter McCormack: 00:15:09:
When I used to do coke, I would have loved to have come to Colombia and get some amazing quality cocaine for five, 10 pound a bag. When I was coming out of my addiction, which is not comparable to yours, but at the same time, Colombia would have been the worst place for me to go to.

Dominic: 00:15:27:
I know. I must say, obviously I was self delusional. This is what I talked to my parents, years ago, about this, "Why did you let me go to Colombia?" They didn't really know, so it wasn't their fault at all. And I, being an addict, maybe I wasn't even using at that point, I was still manipulating to get what I wanted.

Peter McCormack: 00:15:50:
But you're always an addict. The point is, even in recovery, like my friend, Rich Roll, he refers to himself as a recovering alcoholic. Hasn't probably drunk maybe 15 years, but he refers to him as an alcoholic. He says, "I'm always an alcoholic."

Dominic: 00:16:07:
Yeah, God yeah. I mean, the way that addiction's manifested in so many different forms in my life, it's clear. I mean, you have people that say recovered alcoholic, recovering. And you have the analogy of, well, if you get shot by a bullet, you can recover, but it doesn't mean you're immune from the next bullet. Yeah, I'm in recovery and I'm recovering. I mean, haven't got to the emotional sobriety yet, see what I mean?

Peter McCormack: 00:16:36:
Yeah. Yeah, that's-

Dominic: 00:16:37:
But getting there.

Peter McCormack: 00:16:38:
So you're in Colombia, how long did you last?

Dominic: 00:16:41:
So I think Colombia, about six years.

Peter McCormack: 00:16:44:
But how long did you wait until ... Day one?

Dominic: 00:16:48:
No, it was about six months.

Peter McCormack: 00:16:50:
Okay, that's impressive.

Dominic: 00:16:52:
About six months. But I do remember at that time, like we just said a minute ago, emotional sobriety, I was all over the place.

Peter McCormack: 00:17:02:
Were you drinking still?

Dominic: 00:17:04:
Yes, but not heavily. But yeah, eventually I found it, especially being in Colombia, and I found it in big amounts, and big time dealers as well. But I was functioning, I was a functioning addict, I managed to hold it together. I didn't build anything with my life, really. I eventually got married, had a child, and all the way through that, even though I was using, I was functioning. Same in the bar industry really, I managed to function like that.

Dominic: 00:17:41:
So in five years of Colombia, I've got a two and a half year old daughter. I've got a wife that unfortunately, one, had the same problems of addiction that I had, but also had mental health issues, which even though I was trying to hold it together as father and a husband, unfortunately, the kind of craziness that ensued ... I mean, there was schizophrenia, bipolar, and-

Peter McCormack: 00:18:12:
Broken people find each other.

Dominic: 00:18:13:
Exactly. When your self worth is so low, you look for somebody else with equal, if not less, to validate your own sense of identity. So yeah, a lot of craziness, but in the end, once again, I said, "This is enough. Enough is enough," and I went back to England with my daughter.

Peter McCormack: 00:18:42:
I remember you telling me the story though. It wasn't just a case of you just picked it all up and left, that you kind of had to escape, right?

Dominic: 00:18:50:
Yeah, pretty much. I was really worried about the safety of my daughter. I was really worried about my own mental health at this point because I was all alone up here with her. I needed some support, when you're in that situation. But yeah, I had started to get into ... Colombia is not the place you want to start getting into trouble.

Peter McCormack: 00:19:15:
You don't want enemies around here.

Dominic: 00:19:16:
Enemies and debts, and so things started to get dangerous. Also, just being able to take my daughter back to England, which was the number one priority, it was difficult. We managed to get permission in the end. I was hoping my wife would come back to England, but unfortunately it never happened. But yeah, in the end I managed to get out of Colombia, managed to escape out of Colombia. It was literally praying to get out.

Peter McCormack: 00:19:43:
Had you spoken to your parents up front, said the problems back, you're coming home?

Dominic: 00:19:49:
Yeah, just that I couldn't handle, specifically the violence from my wife and the craziness, and I was worried it was starting to affect our child.

Peter McCormack: 00:19:59:
The violence?

Dominic: 00:20:00:
Well yeah, she would attack and throw glasses in my face and things like this, knives and things like this, when she lost it.

Peter McCormack: 00:20:09:
Okay. So your parents aware, is Nick aware at this time?

Dominic: 00:20:17:
Yeah, I think so. The thing is with addiction is you try and cut everyone off, as I've done recently, because you feel you're doing so much damage to everybody. You don't really want them to know. One, it's the shame, two, it's you don't want to be a burden on other people. But I'm pretty sure he had a good idea.

Peter McCormack: 00:20:35:
And so you come back, and this when we end up meeting up. But you come back and you go into ... Did you go into rehab?

Dominic: 00:20:44:
That time, no. It took about five years before I went into rehab because the alcohol came back. But no, I did a pretty good job of lifting myself up. I got a flat, got Elom in school, got a job. I was a single parent because my wife disappeared, but yeah, I managed to get myself back up on my feet again. It was tough. But slowly but surely, addiction came back in because being a single father, loneliness, responsibility, even though I had amazing support from my family, just went into self destructive mode again and started drinking heavily.

Peter McCormack: 00:21:32:
I'm trying to remember when we got in contact again. I think ... So if Elom was two and a half, she's the same age as my son Connor because they're at school together, which is bad, isn't it? Isn't that bad? I was trying to remember when I first saw you again, and I've got this weird feeling you were with Tim and it was by Russell Park, ironically that park we used to go and drink in. I think I was there with Connor and you two were walking past, but I can't remember exactly. But we definitely got back in touch because we hung out a few times. It was before I got married, I think it was.

Dominic: 00:22:10:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:22:12:
Yeah, because I was still with Claire and Scarlet was a baby. I remember we went to, it was either the kite festival or the river festival. We did that together and I think Connor was probably about six or seven. So you'd been back in Bedford for a while?

Dominic: 00:22:31:
Yeah, quite a while.

Peter McCormack: 00:22:32:
I didn't know that.

Dominic: 00:22:33:
Yeah, like four, five years.

Peter McCormack: 00:22:35:
So you must have started drinking again about the time I started to see you?

Dominic: 00:22:41:
Yeah, it started to get bad, as is always with these things. I managed to keep it under control, but yeah, after I think when I was ... When did I first go to rehab? I've been three times now.

Peter McCormack: 00:22:55:
Three? Okay.

Dominic: 00:22:57:
Yeah, I must have been about 33, might be even probably a bit younger.

Peter McCormack: 00:23:02:
Your idea, or your parents, or?

Dominic: 00:23:05:
That first time, it was a kind of intervention with my family, and my brother as well, sat down and said, "You can't. Enough is enough."

Peter McCormack: 00:23:16:
How did they know what was going on though, because if you're living in your own flat?

Dominic: 00:23:20:
Because you start to become unreliable. I'd be late for taking Elom to school. Family events I'd turn up drunk, noticeably drunk.

Peter McCormack: 00:23:35:
So was the drinking the bigger problem at this point?

Dominic: 00:23:37:
Yes. I just drank and smoked weed, I didn't have money for cocaine. Yeah, it was just generally drinking alcohol is probably, for me is worse than cocaine in some ways because, just spiritually and emotionally, it brings you right down, it crushes you. So yeah, at that point my soul was crushed, I was physically addicted, so I had to have drink. I remember my family used to ration me to five cans of beer, and they'd literally come round and bring to me each night. I mean, it's a pretty sorry state of affairs. And I'd be begging for money.

Peter McCormack: 00:24:23:
From your parents?

Dominic: 00:24:24:
Yeah, lying, all the typical traits. So yeah, I went to rehab and what a fantastic experience that was.

Peter McCormack: 00:24:35:
Yeah?

Dominic: 00:24:36:
Yeah, incredible.

Peter McCormack: 00:24:37:
Which one?

Dominic: 00:24:38:
I went to the Providence Project, in Brighton, Bournemouth. I highly recommend it for anybody who's suffering. It's one of the cheapest as well. And yeah, went there and had an incredible awakening if you call it that, great experience with other addicts and got introduced into the whole philosophy behind recovery and the 12 Steps and all that.

Peter McCormack: 00:25:05:
So you did 12 Steps?

Dominic: 00:25:05:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:25:06:
Okay, interesting.

Dominic: 00:25:10:
So yeah, I went through that process and came out a month later, ready to change the world. Didn't last very long because I thought yeah, I've got it under control now. I've had a month clean, I'll just keep it calm. So I think I relapsed pretty much straight away, on the first night. I just wanted a bottle of wine and a bag of weed and that would be enough, just to celebrate.

Peter McCormack: 00:25:35:
Just once?

Dominic: 00:25:36:
Just once. I think I managed to get it under control. I remember my mom caught me with that pretty early on, and then I managed about a year sober after that and got my life back together. They always tell you this stuff in rehab, but it is incredible how once you get sober and once you believe, things start to prosper. I started to get money and things started to go well during that year, but unfortunately, it always comes back to the psyche telling you, "You got it under control this time," not, "We need to give it up for life," let's say. So yeah, I think another five years just about keeping things under control, just about functioning. But towards the end of that, once again it happened where I started drinking all day long and you can't be a parent and do that.

Peter McCormack: 00:26:41:
When was this? What age?

Dominic: 00:26:45:
This was when Elom would have been eight or nine, I suppose. So this time around I begged, I begged my family to put me back into rehab because I was an emotional wreck.

Peter McCormack: 00:27:00:
It's so strange though because I did know you through this period.

Dominic: 00:27:08:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:27:08:
I didn't see you a lot, I saw you occasionally.

Dominic: 00:27:08:
We'd see each other at school.

Peter McCormack: 00:27:09:
Yeah, I'd see you at the school, but met up a couple of times. I wasn't aware of anything, nothing at all.

Dominic: 00:27:18:
I kept it really well hidden, and I didn't get into trouble with the police or things like this. And with the support of my family, I just about managed to be an adequate father. And so yeah, I kept it hidden. You keep the mask on, don't you? They say, what is it? You're an eggshell, there's nothing inside, but you manage to keep that eggshell on to keep everyone fooled.

Peter McCormack: 00:27:43:
So you went back into rehab again?

Dominic: 00:27:46:
I went back into rehab again, six weeks this time, same place. And once again, incredible experience, incredible experience, especially this time because I discovered a bit more about myself. I was going through exactly the same process I'd done five years ago, but this time I was giving support to other people because of my experience. And that, the second time, that's what really highlighted the second rehab, was I felt ... It was like I started to feel my own identity, and that I could actually, after so many years of feeling that you're pathetic, you've got nothing to offer, that you're a burden, suddenly to be a support to people. And people just put it in your face and say, "Thank you for this," and I started to feel who I was. So I came out of that wonderful again.

Peter McCormack: 00:28:43:
So you were both a sponsor and a sponsee?

Dominic: 00:28:46:
Yeah, I'd done both. I don't know how I feel exactly about 12 Step. There were lots of ideas within it which I really value, some very basic ... Have you done ... No, but I've read it. I talked to you about ... I mean, my addiction went from casual cocaine use on a Friday, Saturday night for someone working in advertising, to getting divorced, to very quickly going to do it daily, to then ending up in an ambulance and forced sobriety. So I didn't need to go through it. Sometimes I question if I drink too much. I don't drink often but I can drink too much sometimes. But I looked at 12 Step, because my friend Rich Roll did it. I went to one of his ...

Peter McCormack: 00:29:35:
This is the most Hollywood thing you can do. I was visiting him in LA and he said, "I'm going to my AA meeting, do you want to come?" I was like, "Yeah, I'll go and see what's it like." It was in, I think it was Clint Eastwood's old house, now owned by Sacha Gervasi. It was just a really weird experience, but they were all talking about 12 Steps. So I had a look and I just couldn't get my head around the religious bit.

Dominic: 00:29:58:
Richard Roll, he's an author, isn't he?

Peter McCormack: 00:30:00:
Rich Roll. He did a book called ... Oh, I can't remember. It's Finding Ultra. So he went from an alcoholic to a vegan, ultra athlete, who ... It's unbelievable his story. He ended up doing five Ironmen in five Hawaiian islands. The target was five days, it ended up being seven, but still unbelievable. Like just to even do one and he did ... Yeah, it's the most unbelievable story and he's a really amazing human. He wrote a book about that. But yeah, it was the religious part I couldn't connect with on the 12 Step. Also, I didn't feel like I needed it and I think a lot of people struggle with the religious bit.

Dominic: 00:30:38:
Oh yeah, me all the way through, that's still the ...

Peter McCormack: 00:30:39:
It's the religious bit that is a barrier for a lot of ... But my other friend, I've got a friend, I won't name her but she lives out in Los Angeles, she's from the UK. She stands by 12 Steps, she still goes to her meetings.

Dominic: 00:30:53:
The basic principle is good. You could take the 12 Steps and break it down into three really. Accepting you have a serious problem that you cannot solve by yourself, asking for help, whether that be from God or from people around you. And then just really, because the whole idea of 12 Step is that you're self destructing because of stuff that you've done in the past that is still affecting you, things you haven't made amends for.

Peter McCormack: 00:31:27:
Yeah, you got to go and make amends for everything.

Dominic: 00:31:28:
So you have to just make a big long list and get out there.

Peter McCormack: 00:31:32:
What you're avoiding right now?

Dominic: 00:31:34:
Yes, yes, thank you, Pete.

Peter McCormack: 00:31:38:
But that's the truth, right?

Dominic: 00:31:39:
Yeah, no, no, it is. It totally is.

Peter McCormack: 00:31:39:
And I guess the reason why you're avoiding it is because you've done it so many times-

Dominic: 00:31:47:
It becomes fairly impotent after a while. I can remember the first times I did and I felt incredible after I'd made amends with people. But the third, the fourth, fifth time around? It falls on deaf ears quite understandably.

Peter McCormack: 00:32:04:
I think there's people who feel a lot of inertia with this as well because you sometimes have to admit really shameful things.

Dominic: 00:32:13:
Oh God yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:32:15:
But the weird reality is once you've done it, a weight comes off you, and I'm sure exactly the same would happen now. Well look, we'll get into that. The second rehab, third rehab ... So what happens after second rehab? You come out ...

Dominic: 00:32:32:
Second rehab, right. I come out, things are pretty good for a while, a couple of years, but I can't keep sober. At this point I've managed to get three or four months and then crashing.

Peter McCormack: 00:32:49:
Is the temptation always there though? Are you fighting it? Are you fighting the urge to go to the shop, get a bottle of wine or something? Are you-

Dominic: 00:32:55:
Yeah, well, not so much like that. I'm fighting the urge, even though I'm sober and I'm feeling happy, and I'm going to the gym and I feel healthy, I want to be like everyone else, I want to be able to go out. You cut yourself off socially because I'd go out, I'd go to a party and just spend the whole night with nothing to drink and it's not fun.

Dominic: 00:33:22:
So I'd have a couple of months clean and then crash, but when I mean crash, I drink myself over a week. My daughter will go stay with my parents and I'd literally drink myself into where I was drinking like a bottle of vodka. I'd wake up 05:00 in the morning with tremors, drink a bottle of vodka, walk that walk of shame to the off license, buy a bottle of vodka, drink it until I passed out about four hours later, wake up a couple of hours later, do exactly the same. And that would carry on, throughout 24 hours, every single day. And then maybe I'd pick myself up, my family would step in again, bless them, and sort me out. And it's been a little while longer and then it would happen again.

Dominic: 00:34:20:
I was getting really tired of this happening because every time I built something up ... I can remember one of the worse times was I had saved up about 1500 quid to go on holiday with my daughter. I spent about nine months saving that up, and then in one weekend, I blew it all on drinking. And yeah, I just got so tired of that. I went to see the doctor to ask for some help and they put me on antidepressants because I was also getting trouble at work, because I would have to take a week off while I crashed. Or they'd see me the next day, for example, and I'd be totally red faced and smell of alcohol and had to drive.

Dominic: 00:35:17:
So I went to the doctor, he put me on antidepressants and that was really bad. I stopped drinking, I just took the antidepressants, but I really crashed, not in the same way as alcohol, but I couldn't get out of bed. I didn't want to leave and I was scared to go outside. I didn't go to work, I just didn't go. I just stayed in bed for literally three months watching television, trying to occupy my mind with something.

Peter McCormack: 00:35:50:
How were you financially affording this?

Dominic: 00:35:53:
At that point my work was still paying.

Peter McCormack: 00:35:55:
Even though you weren't going?

Dominic: 00:35:56:
I was on sick pay. I was almost six months on sick pay. They were so good to me, but in the end they had to fire me.

Peter McCormack: 00:36:04:
Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Dominic: 00:36:05:
And so, I lost my job. And so during this time, somehow, and I don't really remember how, but I found crack.

Peter McCormack: 00:36:17:
Yeah. See what I don't know is where's the ... I didn't realize this was mainly alcohol. A lot of this is new to me, I assumed it was all drugs. Where did the big leap to crack and heroin come from because that's a massive leap? Everyone knows, everyone sees cocaine as a social drug, but crack is suddenly seen as an addict's drug, and heroin is like what the fuck are you doing? Where did that big leap-

Dominic: 00:36:42:
God yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:36:43:
Yeah, how did that happen?

Dominic: 00:36:46:
Up to about 35, I was confident I'd never take crack or heroin. Like I say, this part of my life is so hazy. I was so lonely, I think was part of the problem. So I'd drink and go down to the pub and just meet with dodgy people. One, I was buying weed and a little bit coke off them when I could, Meow-Meow it was back then. And like I said, I was lonely, I was inviting people back to my house, on one of these occasions, I invited back someone who takes crack, and they introduced me to it. I really don't remember, but literally in the space of a month or two, I'm smoking crack every single day and then I get into heroin to bring me down. I had a wonderful studio in my house, I had really good equipment.

Peter McCormack: 00:37:45:
Are you enjoying yourself though? I think the film Trainspotting did a really good thing of showing the positives and the negatives of drugs, because a lot of people just think it's all shit, sometimes you're having a fucking great time taking drugs. Were you enjoying yourself?

Dominic: 00:38:00:
When I started taking crack, yeah. God yeah, I loved it. It got me out of bed, it got me writing music again. I literally wrote all my music that I've been trying to do for years in the space of about six months with crack. I stopped drinking as well, pretty much, which helped my emotional stability a lot, but it meant every morning, I'd wake up and that day, I'm going to sort everything out, but I need to have a hit on a crack pipe to tidy the house, to start doing this stuff, and so I'd sell a piece of my equipment. I'd go to the, what are they called? Cash Converters? Crack converters.

Peter McCormack: 00:38:38:
Crack converters, yeah.

Dominic: 00:38:41:
And every single day it was that walk of shame again, not to the off license, but it was to Cash Converters with my speakers or my guitar, or my mixing desk and pawning it for that day, for very little money, to be able to get my hit.

Peter McCormack: 00:38:56:
Right. And then, what period of time had you basically fucking sold the lot?

Dominic: 00:39:03:
I needed at least 50 pounds day, at least. And then with crack it's a big up and so you mix it with heroin to bring you down. Heroin is the most dangerous of them all because it takes so long to get off it. In three, four days, I'll be physically addicted and I'll be vomiting in the morning, and have to have it. And so then I got into selling it, to be able to sustain my habit.

Dominic: 00:39:31:
Oh God, it turned into a real mess ... Two lots of dealers I invited to live with me and they lived with me. One attacked me with a machete, I had to get police sniffer dogs in the house to get him out. And then I invited another dealer in and he started using me. This was part of the start of county lines, he was a part of that group.

Peter McCormack: 00:40:03:
Interesting. I've just been starting to cover knife crime in London and just started looking at county lines.

Dominic: 00:40:09:
I didn't know what it was at the time, but looking back in the news now. Yeah, this guy was from London, got his stuff from London, brought it down, and they dealt it all out. So I started getting involved in gangs, which for someone like me is not my usual scene.

Peter McCormack: 00:40:26:
This is a real escalation of problems though, right?

Dominic: 00:40:29:
God yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:40:31:
You're not in your mind thinking, what the fuck is going on here?

Dominic: 00:40:35:
Part of you, very, very, very, deep inside you, knows exactly what you're doing, but it causes such a split personality.

Peter McCormack: 00:40:47:
Because you need the drugs?

Dominic: 00:40:48:
Because you need it, you need it and you think everything's going to be all right if you have it, just then.

Peter McCormack: 00:40:54:
I'll give up tomorrow?

Dominic: 00:40:55:
It is. Literally, you're in this Groundhog Day, day after day ...

Peter McCormack: 00:41:02:
I heard this great story once, this guy said he went to the shop with his mate, and this guy smokes a lot, he smokes 40 a day. Whenever they go to the pub, he'd go to the shop on the way and he'd buy 20 cigarettes. He said to him, "So why don't you just buy 40, because you're going to go back later?" And he said, "Because every pack is my last pack."

Dominic: 00:41:19:
I'm the same way now, man.

Peter McCormack: 00:41:22:
Once that pack's done ...

Dominic: 00:41:23:
Yeah, there's eight left. Yeah you are, it's complete delusion. And I think, like I was saying, it's kind of dividing your personality between what you know is reality but you don't want to confront, and the addict you, which is just trying to gloss over everything, just trying to get over there. Which is where, like with the alcohol and other drugs, I wasn't as deceptive. I was fairly manipulative, but if you ask me the truth, if my family sat down and asked me the truth, they could see and they would get it out of me that there was a problem.

Peter McCormack: 00:42:10:
Did they know how bad this situation was?

Dominic: 00:42:12:
No.

Peter McCormack: 00:42:12:
Do they even know now? Do they know about all that stuff?

Dominic: 00:42:15:
Yeah I think, well, seeing the devastation I caused when I left, yeah I think they understood, hopefully they understand. It's difficult to explain to somebody who hasn't taken crack or heroin, how powerful it is, which comes to my point that I became a complete liar and a thief, and I never though that was possible of me. Even though I was a drunk before, even though I wasn't the best father I could be, I was definitely not the best son, I was trying, and there was a part of me that was real you could get through to. Once I started taking Class A crack and heroin, I would just blatantly lie, just to get that hit, and steal, and sell out all my dreams, and sell out all my family and friends, and my own daughter. And that is so demoralising, but yeah. I don't know how to explain it really. You just become a completely different person.

Peter McCormack: 00:43:22:
And so then you run away here?

Dominic: 00:43:26:
So then things got so bad, I mean, I've got dealers living in my house that are threatening me. I'd owe them debts, so they'd give me a whole load of crack. I'd be cutting it up it as well, so I started to get in trouble with them, started to get attacked by them. I owe them lots of money. I'd be selling in town, it's a small town. I'd be busking in the street. I was so ashamed of what had become of me. And I really don't even remember this decision, I don't know how it happened, I sold the house because I was so in debt and I thought this would solve my problems. I though I could start again. I just had this delusion that I would go off and become everything I'd been trying to become all these years. I felt ... Being a parent is the most incredible experience of my life, without a doubt, but-

Peter McCormack: 00:44:24:
You're not doing it right now. Sorry to say. You know what I mean, I've got to-

Dominic: 00:44:29:
No, no, no, that's true.

Peter McCormack: 00:44:30:
You're saying it's the most ... You've talked about the highs of the drugs and everything there and I know you've always been a talented musician, want to be a musician, but you're saying that a parent's the most incredible experience of your life and here you are, 5000 miles from her.

Dominic: 00:44:49:
I thought, you're better off without me.

Peter McCormack: 00:44:52:
Yeah?

Dominic: 00:44:53:
Literally. I caused so much devastation and I didn't want my daughter to see me as a crack addict, and so-

Peter McCormack: 00:45:03:
But why did you run back here? You know this is a triggering place for you.

Dominic: 00:45:07:
Well, I think, like the first time, I was kidding myself, I was self-deluding.

Peter McCormack: 00:45:13:
I'm going to come and be a musician, but you came-

Dominic: 00:45:14:
I'm going to become a musician, I'm going to be successful.

Peter McCormack: 00:45:16:
But you're coming here to get cheap drugs?

Dominic: 00:45:19:
Yeah, in the back of mind, but if you asked at the time I was ...

 Peter McCormack: 00:45:22:
Did you just run away and not tell anyone?

Dominic: 00:45:25:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:45:25:
You did?

Dominic: 00:45:26:
I just literally ... I booked one flight and missed it, I was such a mess. Booked one flight, missed it. I was staying in the hotel because I didn't have a house at that point.

Peter McCormack: 00:45:37:
That's when I saw you, that was it because ... Yes, I remember now. You told me you were going to Colombia.

Dominic: 00:45:42:
Yeah, and you tried to stop me.

Peter McCormack: 00:45:43:
Yeah, I was like, "Come home with me and we'll sort it out." Yes, now I remember.

Dominic: 00:45:48:
What a fateful decision that was.

Peter McCormack: 00:45:50:
So you come here, you go through your worse six months ever, right?

Dominic: 00:45:57:
Mm-hmm affirmative.

Peter McCormack: 00:45:57:
You talked about this the other night, the drink gets really out of hand, the drugs get really out of hand. Like how bad and how quickly after you got here did that happen?

Dominic: 00:46:08:
Well, getting here, one, there was no heroin and crack, because believe it or not, there's no crack in Colombia, pretty much. I, just coming to the realisation of what I'd done and also what had happened the year and a half before. I'd given up everything I cared about, the job, the house, the kids, my family. And so, even though in my mind I'm trying to reinvent my new life, I can't escape that, and I'm taking cocaine and drinking every single day just to, one, propel me forward to try and do the things that I'm trying to do with music, and two, to forget the things I've done because I couldn't live with the regret and the shame to be honest, the self-loathing.

Peter McCormack: 00:47:03:
And you nearly die? For fuck’ sake man, and I heard about this. I remember the phone call and I was like, "What?" Heard you're in hospital and you're in a coma.

Dominic: 00:47:14:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:47:14:
Yeah, you're in a coma.

Dominic: 00:47:15:
So two years later, of me drinking two liters of spirits a day and five grams of coke and whatever, weed ... Anyway. At the end, like I said the other day, it was getting like Leaving Las Vegas with Nicholas Cage, just in a bed, drinking myself to death, and I knew I was doing it. I knew at some point something's going to give, and then it did give. I woke up in hospital two months later, coming out of a coma.

Dominic: 00:47:52:
Luckily that night, a friend had come round who had the key to my apartment and found me slumped, purple, and rushed me to hospital. During that time I don't remember any of it. But yeah, I was in intensive care two weeks and they said I had ... Well, my girlfriend told me they told her that he's going to go any minute. They said to her that nine out of 10 people aren't going to come out here alive.

Peter McCormack: 00:48:31:
Didn't Tim also ... I'm sure Tom told me the story that Tim was very close as well during his, to the point of saying you need to say goodbye.

Dominic: 00:48:43:
Yeah, a couple of times. A good couple of times we thought that was it. In fact, the doctors told him, they didn't bother trying to give him hope anymore, I don't think.

Peter McCormack: 00:48:52:
And he's still here and your similar situation that you ... Well, not similar situation, but you know what I'm trying to say on the comparison. And that whole experience with Tim affected you a lot?

Dominic: 00:49:03:
God yeah. It's interesting you bring it up, because that's my only two real experiences of hospital, apart from child birth. So it did remind me much of that 20 years before, when I ended up in hospital in a similar physical condition that Tim was.

Peter McCormack: 00:49:21:
You see the thing was, I told you this, I was coming out here. I knew I was going to Santiago, I knew I had to go to Kukata, so I was like, fuck it, I'm just going to come to Bogotter ... I keep saying it wrong, don't I?

Dominic: 00:49:32:
Bogota.

Peter McCormack: 00:49:32:
Bogota. I keep saying Bogotter ... Bogota and see you. And I spoke to your brother and said, "I'm going to go and see him." I thought you would look like shit and you look fucking amazing.

Dominic: 00:49:46:
Thank you, bro.

Peter McCormack: 00:49:46:
I'm not just saying it, but you're ripped, you're looking good, and I'm like, fucking hell, how do I look so shit and you look so good when you've been through that? But you're not, you have got some longterm ...

Dominic: 00:49:56:
Oh yeah, I've got-

Peter McCormack: 00:49:57:
Yeah, and that's the crack did that?

Dominic: 00:49:59:
Yeah, they had to take out pretty much this lung for the crack, or whatever they mix it with, smoking that stuff. I'm lighter on the smoking as well. But yeah, operated on my kidney. I mean, all my internal organs failed, which is why they thought I was going to die. I had to have dialysis and all this, they thought I'd have to have dialysis for the rest of my life. But by some miracle and love, yeah ... So two months later, I kind of slowly come out of the coma.

Peter McCormack: 00:50:34:
Do you care about your own mortality now?

Dominic: 00:50:39:
Yes and no.

Peter McCormack: 00:50:40:
Still?

Dominic: 00:50:41:
It's difficult, it's a daily struggle. That self destructive thing is still there.

Peter McCormack: 00:50:46:
Do you know why it's there? Like what's the root of it?

Dominic: 00:50:48:
No. I mean the 12 Step people would tell you it's spiritual unease, disease, disease, unease, it's trying to cover that.

Peter McCormack: 00:51:01:
I spoke to Tim yesterday.

Dominic: 00:51:03:
Okay.

Peter McCormack: 00:51:03:
I gave him a call. I said, "I've seen Dom," and he said something quite telling. He said, "Dom just needs to understand that life's quite boring sometimes. We've all accepted it, we've all got old, accepted it's quite boring. Dom just needs to accept it's boring sometimes."

Dominic: 00:51:21:
See the beauty in the ordinary things?

Peter McCormack: 00:51:22:
Yeah.

Dominic: 00:51:23:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:51:23:
You're kind of at a crossroads now. I know you've relapsed a couple of times, we don't need to go into that, but you're at a crossroads now. You're either going to do it again and die, that's the reality, or you're not going to do it again and rebuild your life to what it will be. Where are you mentally with that and emotionally with those decisions? You must be questioning or thinking about where you want the next year, five years, 10 years. What's going through your mind?

Dominic: 00:51:57:
A lot of fear, yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:52:01:
What's the fear?

Dominic: 00:52:05:
Whether it's all going to go wrong again, you can't have so many times you give up hope in yourself. So at the moment, it's trying to find some sort of faith that things ... Things have turned out all right so far, believe it or not, even though the way I've treated myself, even though my own efforts to self destroy myself, somehow I'm still here. I mean this latest hospital thing was very close, but there's so many times in the years where I should be dead, without a doubt. So it's kind of believing that there must be a reason why I'm still here and wanting to make up for everything that I've done, wanting to be a good father again.

Peter McCormack: 00:53:02:
If you're going to do 12 Step you've got to make up again? I mean-

Dominic: 00:53:05:
Yeah, that's going to be tough, right?

Peter McCormack: 00:53:08:
But you can only do it by starting and doing it, right?

Dominic: 00:53:11:
Yeah.

Peter McCormack: 00:53:13:
I also spoke to Nick yesterday.

Dominic: 00:53:15:
Okay.

Peter McCormack: 00:53:15:
Of course, I did, of course. Yeah, he knew I was here, and he wanted to hear. And I said ... You said to me, I don't know if you realize what you said, but you said to me when we had coffee the other day that, "I've got the best brother in the world and he's got the worst brother in the world." And I hope you don't mind but I did tell Nick. I said, "Look this is where his heads at." And he said, "It's fucking bollocks." He said, "He's a great brother and I love him, he just keeps going down the same fucking path," and he's there ... You all right?

Dominic: 00:53:49:
Yeah, I'll be fine.

Peter McCormack: 00:53:53:
He's there for you. He wants you, he just thinks you need to own the first steps of this.

Dominic: 00:54:04:
Yeah, he's totally right.

Peter McCormack: 00:54:08:
There's a few of us ... I feel almost a bit rude and embarrassed that I've stepped in here when other people have been dealing with this for years and I'm wanting to help and talk you. But there was a group of people who are like, "We're just waiting for you," and your bother's one of them. I don't know your parents well, so I can't answer for them. But I'm like, "Come on Dom."

Dominic: 00:54:33:
Yeah. God-

Peter McCormack: 00:54:37:
There's no question that I've just said some stuff, yeah.

Dominic: 00:54:38:
No. No. There's so many things to say. No, but despite all their best efforts and all their patience ... That's the worst thing of this, that's why you become suicidal with this stuff, because you don't think there's a solution and you know you're just causing damage to other people that you love.

Peter McCormack: 00:55:03:
But there is a solution.

Dominic: 00:55:04:
There is, but when you don't get it, or you get it for a while and it goes again, you keep failing, you keep tripping up again and again and again. After 20 years of this now, which is why I did what I did, I just felt I had to remove myself to stop because ... I came here, and I'm in my little world, but at least I wasn't causing the daily damage that I was there.

Peter McCormack: 00:55:34:
Is that true though?

Dominic: 00:55:34:
No, in a way my absence is a daily damage.

Peter McCormack: 00:55:37:
Yeah. I know you have two daughters, but specifically Elom who you're more closer to, if you don't mind me saying. I know we all love our children equally, but ...

Dominic: 00:55:48:
Yeah, I lived with her so-

Peter McCormack: 00:55:50:
Yeah. I'm going to be tough, that isn't right.

Dominic: 00:55:54:
No, go for it.

Peter McCormack: 00:55:55:
Yeah, you know what I mean. It's not right.

Dominic: 00:55:57:
Yeah, I know. Yeah, I'm totally in agreement with that.

Peter McCormack: 00:56:00:
But that is fixable.

Dominic: 00:56:01:
It is fixable, yeah. My plan was to change, come back successful, do all that, in stead, I've had this experience. But like with yourself, you turned your life around in five years and like experiences I've had in the past when I've been sober. And not solely, only sober but spiritually well. My life has turned around incredibly. And that's the beautiful thing about life, isn't it, is that we always have ... The Christians say path to redemption and be on your death bed. So yeah, that's where I'm at, at the moment, is trying to face up to this and work out how to ...

Peter McCormack: 00:56:42:
So what I don't know with you, what is the step from going ... I can tell you want to and I can tell you're carrying this kind of, oh fuck. I guess part of it is like, "I just don't think people will believe me or anything," or, "Can I?" all this self doubt. How do you just go from that point you take that first step, you go, "Okay, here is my plan, this I what I'm going to do?" How does that happen? Because there's people waiting for you, there's a daughter waiting for you of course, people willing to help you but that first thing, how does this happen? Because it's kind of got to happen, right?

Dominic: 00:57:20:
Yeah. I'm trying to make it happen at the moment. I'm trying to come back not crashed, not a mess, which I think I'm getting there pretty well. I've got my health back together, I've pretty much got my addictions under control. But yeah, you're right, it's the emotional aspect of returning and facing up to ... It's weird, because it's kind of like I don't feel it was me before. I don't really understand my decisions I made coming here. It's crazy and it's stuff that I said that I'd never do. So yeah, I'm still trying to compute it, I've still got to work out who I am and who I'm going to be coming back, but I suppose I'm just Dominic.

Peter McCormack: 00:58:10:
Yeah, that's it. You're just Dom. It's just Dom. They're like, you come back, you're Dom, your Elom's dad, your Nicks brother and you probably come back and do a boring ass job and you go for a walk on a Sunday and it's all a bit just normal. It's just what it is, like the rest of us. And you see me, we don't go for a drink, we go down the gym, and you just build this different life, that normal adult life, and we drift along to 50 years old and we reflect on this.

Dominic: 00:58:49:
Yeah, that's what scared me when being a single father. That's what really scared me that I'm going to wake up and it'll all be over and all my dreams, even though I was a good father ... I wasn't, but if I had been, I still always had this hole about what I wanted to do with my life, because I've always been really sure. But the drugs and alcohol have always gotten in the way of that dream, not my family.

Peter McCormack: 00:59:18:
But your kids are going to have dreams and maybe part of it is just helping them with theirs?

Dominic: 00:59:22:
Yeah, God yeah. It is. But yeah, I didn't want to get to 50 and just go ...

Peter McCormack: 00:59:29:
You might do. I think 99.9% of us do and there's this little small percentage who end up achieving what they always wanted to do, whether they're a writer, a musician. Yeah, some people different ambitions, but yeah.

Dominic: 00:59:47:
I think I came here to reinvent myself and it didn't happen the way I wanted it to happen, but this experience has ... I don't feel like the same person as before, it's weird.

Peter McCormack: 01:00:00:
Yeah, but you are, to me you are.

Dominic: 01:00:02:
Yeah?

Peter McCormack: 01:00:03:
Basically, you're the same Dom as at school, or the same Dom who I saw in Bedford, but just somebody who's just a bit fucking cool, very easy to talk to, who's got a good heart. I know it's there, just with all this other bullshit it's-

Dominic: 01:00:17:
It's great, because my girlfriend she knew me before, for about a year before I went into hospital, and she thinks I'm a completely different person than that person.

Peter McCormack: 01:00:26
Yeah, but I didn't see that person.

Dominic: 01:00:27:
No, exactly.

Peter McCormack: 01:00:29:
And it's really weird having not seen all that. I saw it for a moment in the Embankment, and I recognised it, I knew exactly what was going on. Once it clicked, I knew exactly what was going on, and I wanted to get you away, that's why I phoned your brother and Tim. And it didn't happen, but here we are.

Dominic: 01:00:47:
Here we are again.

Peter McCormack: 01:00:50:
Yeah. Circumstance put us here together, I'm here to help.

Dominic: 01:00:55:
Thank you, man.

Peter McCormack: 01:00:55:
If you want help. If you're willing to do your part as well. I'm not really sure how to close this out. When you know someone for that long, when it's 27 years, and even if you don't see them for 15 years in the middle of it, you've known them for 27 years, you've known them from a kid to an adult, you're a friend, I love you dearly, and I want the best for you. I really, really, like I said, I see this going a couple of ways and I know which way I want it go-

Dominic: 01:01:27:
Well, it'd be interesting to do a podcast in a couple years and see what happens.

Peter McCormack: 01:01:29:
Well, let's do it. Hopefully it'll be in Bedford, and whatever it is. But the help's there. I don't know how to close it out. I didn't prepare for this one. Usually, I have questions. I knew because I knew you, I could just sit down and talk with you. You know what? I just want to be home in Bedford, I want to go for a pizza with you, Connor, Scarlet, Elom, perhaps your girlfriend. I just want to do that and then know, if we've reached that point, that's been a massive step for you, and your kids, and everything. I just hope that happens and ... Yeah.

Dominic: 01:02:06:
Bless you, man. Thank you.

Peter McCormack: 01:02:09:
Feeling all right?

Dominic: 01:02:09:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that was all right.

Peter McCormack: 01:02:11:
Yeah, I think it was good.

Dominic: 01:02:13:
There were millions of different things I'd like to say to my family, but-

Peter McCormack: 01:02:18:
Do you want to add anything to this? I'm going to let them ...

Dominic: 01:02:21:
Are you going to let them see this?

Peter McCormack: 01:02:23:
Well, I just think out of ... I know Nick would want to hear from you and this is a nice way for him to hear from you.

Dominic: 01:02:30:
Ah Nick, I love you and I really miss you, and I'm coming back soon.

Peter McCormack: 01:02:35:
Yeah. And I'm probably going to go and see your parents, just see how they are. I don't know if they'll want to see it. Maybe I'll just tell them what happened. But I want to see you in Bedford soon enough, man.

Dominic: 01:02:47:
Cool, man.

Peter McCormack: 01:02:49:
Come here. You all right?

Dominic: 01:02:53:
Yeah, I'm cool, man.